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National Budget Speech - 22 February 2017
#1
The Minister will present the 2017/2018 budget on 22nd February 2017 at 14:00.

All documents will be uploaded here: http://www.treasury.gov.za/default.aspx

You can provide 'tips' to the minister here: TIP

Updates will be posted in this thread.

What changes do you think will the government present?

Full #Budget2017 speech -> http://www.treasury.gov.za/documents/nat...speech.pdf

#Budget2017 Summary -> http://www.treasury.gov.za/documents/nat...lights.pdf

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#2
I'll be submitting the INCREASE THE FCKING VAT TO 18% tip as many times as I can before then.

On a side note, that is one really bad looking FORM/website........... god these useless fuckers makes me angry.

#3
Wait what? - Do you want to increase vat?
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#4
(02-07-2017, 09:24 AM)Spreadsheet Ranger Wrote: Wait what? - Do you want to increase vat?

Yes of course, it's by far the easiest and simplest way for treasury to get money needed for development and reducing our ever increasing debt.

#5
(02-07-2017, 09:28 AM)Purply Wrote:
(02-07-2017, 09:24 AM)Spreadsheet Ranger Wrote: Wait what? - Do you want to increase vat?

Yes of course, it's by far the easiest and simplest way for treasury to get money needed for development and reducing our ever increasing debt.

I see Dlamini-Zuma will replace Pravin Gordhan after the after treasury budget vote.

Interesting times ahead of in this country.

#6
(02-07-2017, 09:24 AM)Spreadsheet Ranger Wrote: Wait what? - Do you want to increase vat?

Hell yes. Instead of increasing any other tax which tends to target specific groups of people, increase VAT so that everybody feels the pain especially the poor who keep on voting for these inept idiots mismanaging our money.

Tired of paying because the clueless keep making the same mistake.

#7
(02-07-2017, 09:28 AM)Purply Wrote:
(02-07-2017, 09:24 AM)Spreadsheet Ranger Wrote: Wait what? - Do you want to increase vat?

Yes of course, it's by far the easiest and simplest way for treasury to get money needed for development and reducing our ever increasing debt.

I get that totally. However I am convinced corruption is what is eating into the money the government receives from taxes in other words I think our current tax system brings in enough money the problem is elsewhere. I mean in 2015/16 The South African Revenue Services (SARS) has collected R 1.0699 trillion in taxes. This surpasses the R1.0697 trillion target by R154.07 million set out in 2015's budget speech.

So what I would love to see is something similar to what Trump did with for every new legislation signed in two older ones must fall away. So in essence if they want to lift vat from 14% then something else has to be lowered, but that something must benefit the end end user.

Example if they want to raise vat from 14% to 16% then the 29.6% fuel levy needs to be lowered. If fuel becomes more affordable then all goods and services in the country can get lowered and people can actually have buying power again. There has to be a loop that leads back to the end consumer.

Now I know it is not really as straightforward as this, but you get what I am saying? We cannot just keep raising taxes where will it end?
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#8
Corruption isn't going to change overnight , but VAT can.

It's a short term solution which can hopefully buffer the economy until corruption gets weeded out little by little until VAT can be lowered again.

#9
VAT makes out 26.4% of the TAX we pay in SA - according to wikipedia.

So an increase in VAT - what effect will it have? What will it do to our inflation? Think it will push us over the 6% target and then interest rates will climb, becoming a vicious circle... everything will become more expensive and we will move closer to ression... more people will loose their jobs, more people will become insolvent. Don't think its easy to keep everything in balance.

Image(s)
JSE Finance Forum Attachment - Filename: 2017-02-07 10_16_26-Taxation in South Africa - Wikipedia.png   


#10
(02-07-2017, 10:10 AM)Purply Wrote: Corruption isn't going to change overnight , but VAT can.

It's a short term solution which can hopefully buffer the economy until corruption gets weeded out little by little until VAT can be lowered again.

That is my issue, vat won't be lowered again.

Hence there needs to be some incentive to lower it. They will not lower it again ever, unless they are forced. Since vat is baked into the retail price I feel it would be hugely regressive, with the cost falling mostly on the poor, because lower income people typically consume a higher percentage of their incomes than those with higher incomes. 

Do not get me wrong I know a vat increase will be a huge boost, but I am trying to look 10 years down the line. A cheap and dirty fix now will not be sustainable and how long before they raise it even more and since Vat is a tax on consumption rather than income this can seriously affect each person individually when food becomes too expensive and Joe on the street can no longer afford the essentials for his family or himself.

There must be another way, there must be some other incentive where other taxes can be marginally lowered.
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#11
Plenty essentials are currently VAT exempt and more can be added to aid the poor.

At the end of the day everyone needs to pay that little bit extra and not just the usual bunch that keeps on getting screwed over and over each year when taxes get raised.

Anyways, no real point in discussing this as it will never happen in SA due to people have zero balls and foresight

#12
(02-07-2017, 10:54 AM)Purply Wrote: Anyways, no real point in discussing this as it will never happen in SA due to people have zero balls and foresight

Watch! Watch how this now gets added in the budget speech if someone tweets this thread to Parliament Tongue
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#13
(02-07-2017, 11:13 AM)Spreadsheet Ranger Wrote:
(02-07-2017, 10:54 AM)Purply Wrote: Anyways, no real point in discussing this as it will never happen in SA due to people have zero balls and foresight

Watch! Watch how this now gets added in the budget speech if someone tweets this thread to Parliament Tongue

I've already entered this into their TIP site 5 times today, will keep adding as the week goes on, however I doubt it will make any difference in the end.

Besides, it has been tabled and discussed in parliament before if I'm not mistaken?

Good article that was released last week on this exact issue

http://www.fin24.com/Opinion/sas-tax-dil...s-20170127

#14
Quote:Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan is expected to announce a number of tax increases when he delivers the 2017 Budget speech on Wednesday, February 22.

Although higher taxes on corporates and the super-rich may be popular ideas, they may be detrimental to the economy and raising value-added tax (VAT) may prove a much fairer and quicker way to increase revenue, said Tertius Troost, a tax consultant for Mazars.

According to Troost, VAT has remained unchanged for quite some time. “It is also widely known that South Africa’s VAT rate is low when compared to other African countries, which is why we believe there is scope to increase.”

With Treasury’s stated goal to raise R43bn over the next two years, the long-term effects of every possible tax change need serious consideration.

“Some of the most popular tax changes that have been discussed in the media include measures like new tax brackets for high-net-worth individuals and increases in corporate tax, which may in fact negatively affect the economy in the long-run. At the same time, the tax increases that seem to affect the average consumer the most, just may be the most viable option,” Troost said.

There is currently a global trend towards lower tax rates, with countries like the UK and the US proposing to cut corporate tax to below 15%. “Reducing the corporate tax rate encourages growth and increases jobs, which translates to increased revenue collection from individuals.”

Unfortunately, South Africa is unable to follow this global trend as a result of its vast budget deficit, said Troost.

“Any upward adjustments of these rates would result in South Africa becoming less competitive internationally which will decrease foreign investment that is vital to the country. Luckily, I believe that Treasury also sees this issue.”

A new, so-called super tax bracket may also not be a permanent solution, he argued.

“South Africa has imposed super tax brackets in the past and these have had some success historically. It is a decision that Treasury should not make lightly. Individual income tax is the simplest source of revenue to adjust but it was already raised two years ago. It will be difficult to justify any increase since they are not able to show an improvement in curbing wasteful expenditure and combating corruption,” he said.

Treasury will need to balance its need to raise gross tax revenue in the short term with the need to encourage increased investment and growth in the country.

Raising taxes on high-net-worth individuals may actually drive them to emigrate to more tax-favourable jurisdictions, which means taking their money out of the country.

An increase in VAT is a tax that affects all classes of consumers, which is why Treasury would probably encounter pushback if they plan on increasing it, Troost pointed out.

Its effect on lower income groups also has political implications. An increase in VAT will need to include amendments to exclude more products consumed by the lowest income classes.

“Tactically I believe that Treasury’s best move would be to announce a 2% increase in VAT and to adjust that number down to 1% after the initial pushback from consumers,” Troost said.

Source: http://www.fin24.com/Budget/why-gordhan-...2-20170217
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#15
>>>An increase in VAT is a tax that affects all classes of consumers, which is why Treasury would probably encounter pushback if they plan on increasing it, Troost pointed out.

#downwithVATincrease

How many votes will ANC loose if they raise the VAT...just wondering...







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